We need to figure out how we're going to do special attacks #82
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Especially because of #61 , that's going to need it's own dedicated button as well, and that's even more screen space (On mobile) and more even complicated to play |
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I think there should be mp and some enemy should drop potions |
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I agree with Emanuel, and with your concerns about taking up space, we could just change the HUD around a little, like so |
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and if you want some extra space on top of that, we abbreviate "level" to just "lvl" |
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I like that idea of moving the hud up there, that actually makes alot more sense thank you @Heebe @emanuelpartida @Heebe One thing about that though that I've discussed with daniel before, but he and I agreed a while ago that it isn't one thing that would be good to do for the following reasons A: It would make every playthrough more luck based. Because if I have enemies drop items at random then the amount of all-powerful special attacks increase. therefore if we add any type of multiplayer or leaderboards, that would be a bit more biased. B: As I said before it would take up screen space. Not just in the hud, but Imagine mobile. We already have planned a d-pad (analog stick) and a punch button, and a dodge button. I feel like I would have to make the other two buttons smaller, which would make them harder to press, or keep them all big size, and you lose track of our character even more cause you cant see him, which has already been becoming an increasing problem. Also, 3 buttons on the right hand side of the screen is an awkward number. C: Having items on the map would clutter things up even more with our permanance and kevin's object. I feel like we're already pushing boundaries of this game (Which is a good thing) and we need to keep in mind how far we are pushing it D: I could go on and on with other problems with this but I'm at work, and I wanted to get my say in as you guys kept pushing for this |
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Alright, I have an idea. -Mobile- Analog = Movement The Shop/Powers menu allows you to purchase special attacks with score, or if we decide, with real money. But don't completely lock any powers behind real money. This menu also allows you to bind a certain special power that you have as "usable". When a person playing wants to use that move that they selected, all they need to do is tap the middle of their screen. -Desktop Computer- Same as above but we could give the player more options to bind powers to keys on their keyboard, also, add keymapping. The MP issue The Multiplayer Issue I do not think it would add bias to multiplayer. It could add strategy even, with 2 players having 2 different specials set, one player could have their partner collect the orbs so that they could use their special if they have a good one. If a player in multiplayer accesses the Shop/Power menu, on the other person's screen the character will be shown guarding up or something, with them being immune for a small amount of time. Enough to let the person select a different special but to know they have a limited amount of time to get back into action. This issue is a work in progress but still. No issue with Leaderboard |
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Having a select button doesn't fix the issue of having too many buttons. Honestly, I forgot we would even need a start button for mobile. I think having 4 buttons on a mobile game should be max, that's already a lot of screen space. I don't think we should use a shop system for our special attacks, I feel like score could be used for you to unlock special attacks which would be cool, but stoping the flow of the game for them is a bad idea in my opinion. I feel like it works in counterstrike, because It's alot more tactical, ours is more all-out action, stopping that would be a HUGE drop off point for our players Using real money to unlock powers I feel like is kinda too pay to win. I think we should use in app purchases to unlock new maps and things. maybe even new players with different stats. but mostly aesthetic things. Like for example, our current uy the default one could be 1 health, 1 seed, 1 attack. But you can buy a character for .5 health, .5 speed, 2 attack, and he's purple. I think that'd be better as it gives players a fair advantage depending on their play style, now that we've added things like health regen i think it'd be the way to go. We could also make special maps or bosses purchaseable, and we could definitely make dlc purchaseable. Honestly, for our business plan with the game, I think it should be offer a demo of just the core gameplay, and you can't unlock anything (kind of like a demo, but you can play forever). But through in app purchases, or buying the game, you get the ability to unlock aesthetic games and stuff. I'll document my ideas on this in this issue: #104 And for tapping the middle of the screen, that is not a good idea in my opinion, people are going to be tapping the screen like crazy, with 4 on screen buttons as it is, our real estate is lacking, and the middle of the screen is just a slight mistap. That is why I suggested that the attack button just turn a different color or something and you use a special attack I'm glad we agreed on flashing yellow. But the permanence has our map already intensely cluttered. The only way we could have item drops without the game looking just too much is if we get rid of some of the permenance, and having the enemies delete themselves after a specified time. I like the idea of two different players having specials. in the issue I referenced, I left a note of that. But again I made an argument about the shop menu, and having your buddy guard stops the flow of the game, for not only you, but makes a multiplayer experience feel singular. And I still think drops is an issue with the leaderboard. If drops still made a game completely skill based. How come in all of competitive smash play, they don't allow smash balls or any health drops, or item drops? Even nintendo realized that drops make the game for fun, compared to for glory. When people start getting competitive, things like item drops become a huge concern |
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Also, I removed this from the milestone as this has been quite a talk for a while now, and I do not think it will be solved soon |
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@Heebe I'm looking forward to your response |
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I think we should use an mp system that regenerates like health but a lot slower. It should activate it when both attack and dodge are pressed. |
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That's a good idea for an mp system, but I think pressing space and ctrl is an awkward combination, and on mobile it's be even harder |
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@Heebe @emanuelpartida after some play testing, it was suggested to me, that we have powerups that drop such as double damage, or double speed, that last for about 30 seconds to a minute until they go away. We could do that, or have specail attacks automatically activate once you pick them up |
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Doesn't that drop system completely contradict what you were saying about drops unbalancing the game though? |
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But yeah I like the MP system too. |
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I think the button mapping as it stands right now is a little bit awkward too. It's a bit hard to play with ctrl but is playable with the wasd, r, and space combo, still a bit awkward though. |
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@Heebe yes it does, but it was just a suggestion. I don't know if you've agreed or disagreed with drop unbalancing the game yet. I'm glad we decided on an mp system, but if we use that system, how do we do unleashing the attacks? And I made the r and ctrl off of the top of my head, that can be changed, just create an issue for it @Heebe |
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Yeah I just don't see drops being a good idea as of yet. I'm still thinking on how we should unleash the attacks. |
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Okay awesome, WE ARE AGREED NO DROPS AS IT CAN LEAD TO UNBALANCED GAMEPLAY, SEE ABOVE FOR MORE |
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@Heebe I remember someone suggested holding the attack button, we could do that, and like we can have them flash so many times, and if they do unleash the attack |
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Holding the attack button is already taken for continuous attacking, and we
should keep the continuous attacking because that's something I've had been
requested to by numerous people.
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Cool. Well then @Heebe I think honestly our best bet for this, since we cant really execute special attack, maybe this isn't the game to have it. We'd have to sacrifice dodging for them at this point. And honestly dodging is preety cool. I think we should simply just go with the drops that give you double damage for a time period. Yeah it's unbalanced, but if anything, we can have a for glory mode without them. And I can code a backend with two different leaderboards for each respectively, if a competitive leaderboard scene does arrive |
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I had multiple people suggest drops with double damage and stuff, wouldn't be too hard to implement, but we'd need to you to create drop icons for this. As I feel like we have the cake, and now we just need the icing |
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Also, we implement the suggestion from @torch2424 for a "for glory" mode with separate leaderboards for the more competitive fanbase. The mode will have no drops, and (no mp?). |
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@Heebe The for glory mode was simply an example I was making with the drops. I apologize if I made it seem like I wanted to go through with it. If anything, we can keep For Glory on the backburner "If a competitive leaderboard scene does arrive" this will probably be more pertinent if multiplayer joins as well. But for now, since the direction you guys want to go, the game is gonna be more geared for randomness and strategy, compared to skill. It'll be a bit difficult for people to take it as a more skillgul game, which isn't a bad thing though. Also, I brought this up with Daniel, one thing he said we should keep in mind is that the game is called "Super Punch Legacy", he emphazied that the game title implies the game revolves around punchng. So our attacks and specials should reflect that |
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Also, one thing about your image, I thought you should see this to explain why I was worried about the amount of buttons
I have a 4.5 inch screen. Your picture is only slightly smaller than my device in comparison, and to be honest, the image makes my device look even a little bigger than it does in person, as it's a little bit closer to the camera than my laptop screen. Even though phones are a bit bigger now. Iphone 5's have about my screen size, and so do a good amount of android devices. Alot of people cant afford flagships, and tend to get devices like mine. Especially preeteens or young kids, who will more than likely be our mobile market |
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I still think the button orientation would work. It would crowd to much of the screen especially if the buttons are transparent. Most likely the S button would be used more tactically so it won't be pressed as much and making the real estate easy to handle. I just did a 4.5 inch screen measurement using my own phone, and although the screen is small, it wont take up as much space as you think and will still allow for comfortable button presses. If you can think of an idea for button placement that includes a special button though, go right ahead. |
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Daniel has a point with specials needing to be "punch oriented", noted, and referred to @emanuelpartida |
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And ok, @torch2424 but if the need arises we should just keep a "vanilla" mode like that in the back of our minds. |
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@Heebe I understand that the buttons would be an alright size. But I wanted to have them larger, as we are getting close to an snes button config:
Like it was known from the beginning the buttons would be semi transparent. One thing I'd like to ask, have you ever tried to play streetfighter 2 turbo mode on an snes emulator? It's almost no possbile, there's so many misclicks, your fighting more of the controller than the actual fighter. Our game might even be more fast paced than that. so whatever button configuration we chooses, should be a bit larger than comfortable, even slightly larger than the picture above I'd think. Also, notice how much of the screen is actually clearly visibile. A little less than half right? butcause the dpad and the extra third and forth buttons do that. And dont substract L and r, that's where our hud is going, which wont even be transparent. I'm not in favor of not having a button, I just want to show you my thought process on these kinds of decisions. And col. I'll be working on the game all day today. I wont be doing special attacks till next week. As I still want you an Emanuel to figure this out. |
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I understand that, but super punch legacy isn't a 2d fighter like street fighter or mortal kombat. It's a fluid almost-topdown arcade style fighter. 2 different genres. I believe our button scheme would work with ours, but of course not with a game like that. Even if our game is fast paced. |
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@Heebe okay cool. Well I'm gonna be busy on stuff for the game all day. figure out special attacks with emanuel please <3 |
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Also, button config for this is contained in #112 |
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What do you mean by figure out special attacks?
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instead of a fire ball i can make it like a fist? and earth spike you punch the ground is the goodish? |
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@emanuelpartida I like the firball be a giant fireball fist. THat's be awesome, and how about instead of spikes, they are earth fists? |
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@Heebe Like I said above "I'm being outvoted, and I think I'm just being too picky on this whole thing. How about this. lets just start over, I think I kinda influenced everything oddly. You and emanual can come up with an idea wether it be more buttons, more mana, orbs, specials drops or whatever. And then come back to me, and I'll code it up?" However, you keep asking for my input. I would like for you an emanual, to sit down, from a clean slate decide what kind of special attakcs, power ups, or whatever you guys would like to do. Today is my dev day, and I'm focused on that |
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I was including you because you are a part of this, anyway, Emauel and I can't sit down and talk today because he has work in like 2 hours. |
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i like your earth fist idea that sounds random and one of the power up could be a morph that turns punch guy to a giant demon that punches everything and another could be invincibility or super speed? How about super flying fist like punch guy flies one direct and destroys his enemies with is mighty flying fist?? |
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We'll talk about those when I see you tomorrow @emanuel, Starbucks? |
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And @torch2424, I was just asking what you meant, that's all. |
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sure dude |
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@Heebe I appreciate you including me. but yes that is what I mean <3 |
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Alright, Emanuel and I have agreed upon: Drops:
side note 4: Drops 1, 3, 4, and 5 will work on a timer of 15 seconds of use, if the player happens to get an extra pickup of these the timer will be stacked for more extra time. Specials: ⭐Which specials we use and at what level ranges are still being actively worked on but shall be worked out soon.⭐ |
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@Heebe Since you guys still have a little bit left to figure out, I'll be doing specials in the next alpha, but I'd like to have this decided by this milestone :D |
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Hey Guys, if you could please let me know what levels have what specials, and give me all the art for this (Those that are missing), that'd be great, as I'd like to close this issue and move onto the next one! |
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I'm going to move this into alpha 8.0, but I'd like to have this done ASAP, that way we can move into beta much sooner |
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Also, one thing I'd like you guys to note #135 is something that needs to be done since we are using a special button and people's specials. This will take up a lot of time and resources. Compared to just drops which kevin could make. I will be not working on the game as much until after all of this is implemented, and we communicate more on the issues with needs discussion, as I can only code the content that I have. And I cannot go and create any new screens a trailer or anything until we ave finalized content |
Emanual has been making beautiful AOE attacks, and all kinds of specials, but How do we manage this in gameplay. Do we need an mp bar? How will MP regenerate?
I am against adding an mp section in our hud, as it is already taking up alot of space, and I suggest that you just automatically use one after you attack so many times, and depending on your level, you do a different special.
You could flash yellow to indicate it's a special attack, and make a sounds, kinda like tony hawk
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